Sucky Sites - stouse.com
Comments
Well, yeah, since I was too lazy to ever get my blog off the ground, and needed a reliable second for the concept to even work, this works out just fine. Your site’s already great, has a decent audience, and is ripe for my kind of topics anyhow.
That’s just sad, btw, that it doesn’t even work with Firebird. The guy had told me that they kept up with Mozilla, and that my “problem” was that I was on a Mac. I guess their IT department never visited their art department--of course, they never would have gotten a call for help there anyway.
Well, Stouse is a supplier of mine.
I have no idea what you are talking about as in it’s all Greek to me. I did use a system to build my own site *****.com to mine and everyone else’s surprise:) I’d be curiouss how bad my site rate’s with you since you know better what you are talking about. I use mine only for a local market area, catalogs etc., but now I do have a global site flagsflyinghigh.com for flags sales. that was a collaborated effort.
I do now have a retired IBM that is going to help me some. I will be eager to compare what you and he have to say.
I can’t tell if you know what you are talking about in sniffers since I don’t know what they are but I am going to find out (Do you mean they are tracking the users activities and reporting to someone?). I do admit though my system will not allow me to log on to the new stouse site. They want me to download something. Of course my ***** requires a flash macromedia download; Is what you are speaking of as a sniffer! I find nothing attached to my download maybe I am wrong. I’ll let you educate me.
It has been an experience finding you!.
I do like this web business. It makes me feel like I am traveling and meeting very interesting people!
Have you checked out equipmatching.com fascinating site and there is also atlantaevent.com. I am a person who loves to network!
I hope you have an excellent holiday!
Stay safe!
Kay
Well, Derek can post his own comments when he gets the chance, but in the meantime I’ll give a little feedback. (BTW, Derek, what happened to this “weekly” series? 
)
First, [g]browser sniffing[/g] is when someone uses some method on their site (usually javascript) to determine what type of web browser they think you’re using and then serve different content or restrict access to you based on what they find. The original concept isn’t necessarily that bad of an idea, but the problem is that very, very few people/sites actually implement it in a way that works or is accessible.
As Derek said, the best idea is to code your website to known web standards such as :XHTML: and :CSS:. If done properly then you won’t need any browser sniffing and you’ll be assured that basically anyone visiting the site will be able to access the content. The visitors won’t always see the exact same visual presentation (assuming, mind you, that they aren’t accessing with a non-visual means such as a screen reader) but they’ll at least still see all the content and have a usable site.
Now, as for [your website*]… Using Flash isn’t bad in itself, but you really need to also provide non-flash access to your content. What if I was a blind user? How would I be able to use your site?
Second, assuming I can use Flash, your main page opens a second pop-up window which then resizes itself. It’s generally considered bad design to force a pop-up window without the OK of the visitor. Instead, the content should load into the browser that I used to visit the site.
Anyway, those are a few comments. I suspect Derek will make some more.
Thanks for the basic rundown, Chris. Now my take. And yes, it never did become weekly now did it? I’ll have to get back on that.
At any rate, I’ll have to disagree with Chris about browser sniffing. It is and always has been that bad of an idea. Even if it works flawlessly, whoever did it just created eight times the amount of work for themselves should they need to change content. Heck, even if the content remains the same forever, they’ll still be spending inordinate amounts of time keeping up with every revision and update of every browser to make sure that their site still works.
I will vehemently agree with Chris on the other two points though. Especially as a business. My personal opinion is that Flash is suitable for optional content only, and is not suitable for delivery of your primary content. Ask yourself, “what do I really gain?” by having it operate in that manner. Are you really going to have increased sales because you have a 4 second sound looping on top of CPU heavy animations? My personal opinion aside, the professional consensus is more along the lines of Chris’s phrasing. You need to provide a non-flash version of your site that has access to all of the same content. You are creating a wall that your customer has to jump over just to see what you have to offer. Sell me your stuff, not your Flash.
Chris’s comment about the popup window should be underlined. It’s not bad design--it’s rude. Especially on systems running Internet Explorer, every extra browser window hogs a silly amount of computer resources. It’s not fair to your users. Besides--what are they going to do with that window behind it that doesn’t have any content on it?
I probably sound really mean, and really scathing, and I probably am. But believe me when I say that I have an honest interest in helping you. You don’t know me, so you can get ticked off and never speak to me, ever; allowing me to be as candid as I need to be to help you see your site’s flaws.
Be fully aware, though--these are not merely technological flaws. These are business decision flaws. When you are ignorant of the technology and how it hurts you or is inconvenient to others, that’s one thing. But if you know, and are made aware, and then make a business decision to keep it that way, then that’s a greater indication of how the rest of your business is going to work as well.
For a business, especially a PPAI, or ASI, whichever network you are in, who is wanting to expand and gain business online, there is a mantra that you would do wise to repeat and emulate. WWAD. What Would Amazon Do. Amazon.com has gone through more dramatic changes in their presentation and implementation of their web commerce business than any other company has successfully done. Look at their site. Look at how their site functions and how quickly and unobtrusively they bring information to the user.
It’s easy to see that Amazon.com would not implement a Flash-only website. I would take it further and argue from watching their model that they wouldn’t use Flash at ALL. They certainly do not and will not pop up extra windows for their customers.
Now that I’m finished being brutal...and I only am because this is not a personal site, but one intended to gain business and create sales...how are things going for you? Are you PPAI or are you ASI?
By the way, Stouse is a fantastic supplier. Top notch people to work with from top to bottom. Form a strong bond with them and they will not let you or your clients down. There’s a similar supplier in Olathe named Gill Studios. I often think that the two companies must be owned by brothers as their products and even catalogs are eerily similar. Their site is [url=http://www.gill-line.com]http://www.gill-line.com[/url].
Good luck!
Guys!
I am not mad. I appreciate everything you are saying but user friendly?
I haven’t got a clue what you are talking about. Pop-up? You mean the hosting company’s macromedia page?
The site for I SPY IMAGES is a venue of information, a tool not a product of sales. It is meant to be something that I can send customers to that they can use to connect to Stouse or other sites and yet remain on my Landing Page, going from catalog to catalog, gathering ideas.
Yes, there are PA’s out there that are very sophisticated and don’t neet my sourcing of catalogs. And to them I give the direct site addresses. However, you must keep in mind with all that you are saying—Well, a while back I retired from sales and went to work in a major Atlanta hospital’s L & D where over 1500 babies are delivered in a month! When any one on that floor’s computers acted up with any kind of problem or someone wanted it to do something different, they would say; “Go get Kay!” Now isn’t that scary? Recently I was recruited by my son to return to this world that was once as framiliar to me that I could precisionally walk it even though most found it to be a mind field. Most of my customers are still very limited on web serving and all the terms you are thowing out there. You are all so very sophicticated and a highly technical group, such as the tech station on Direct TV. I listen to it hoping to learn but they talk way over my head.
The thing I like most about those that are techy is when they can talk at my level.
I once knew a young man who ate doctorates for lunch. He built a radio when he was three. He went to Case Institue of Tech now Case Western Reserve at 16 because he was kicked out of the local public school for “teaching teachers!’ as the front page of the evening paper headlines read. I don’t know how many Phd’s he collected, I am sure I would need both hands to count them up. What I liked most about David is how he could come down to my level never overwelming me with his knowledge, and yet ten minutes later he could have a conversation with a visiting doctor from Scotland here in the states to do research in the world of Hemotology and overwelm that man with his knowledge on the subject.
David worked in the Cleve. Clinic’s research lab when he was 12 years old and became bored with medicine. Can you imagine? He chose the world of computers during the Viet Nam days. I wish he was still around to educate me so I could better understand all of this.
I am absolutely gratefull for what you have shared!
Having a very strong history in sales with a very high closing ratio, the one thing I know is when you are selling it’s nice to know more than you’re customers but never lecture them. And I don’t mean that in a mean way. I do think I kind of understand better “sniffing” than I did before. And I know that this self contained site that I got in a package deal is far from terrific but I am yeons ahead of where I was six months ago. At least now I have a site and was able to place myself in a position that I could quit working a job and go to work in the promoting of my son’s business. What I like best about “my site” is that it serves within the confines of a 21,000 resident community and links all kinds of local things to us and our local viewer, fun things. Did you go on the Chocolate Tour? Probably not.
I am no genius by any means but there was a time when my brain was picked by major marketing departments players in this town. There were ASI members who wished they could get to my clients and pick up my business. I have never belonged to any ASI or equivilant. Never needed to. I know Stous well.
It was “my” 25M red wax lips that were mailed out in the promoting of a major radio station, etc., I always found the likes of ASI’s confining as did my clients. I don’t sell products I find what my clients want.
If I sound unappreciative to what you have said I do not mean to. I think I told you I have recently met a retired gentleman from IBM that is going to assist me with my two sites the other another “PAINT BY NUMBER”
type that I have is flagsflyinghigh.com, is it htlm? of the storesonline group (and I bet you have thoughts on that one, and them as well, as I do) but I am going to share your thoughts all of them with my IBM retired exec. and see if he cannot help me to better understand what you have presented here and how we can take advantage of all of your suggestions. I am going to look at the sites you suggested as well. I am sure they are good.
I have already networked your site address to many, for I do think it is a very good one!
Keep an eye on *****.com and see if you don’t spy me taking your advice. I am just old enough to be a little on the slow side in more ways than one, be patient!
It is true the world of sales is very different where web sites are concerned and yet not so different that those of us with gray hair have not some good thoughts to share.
Again you have yourselves some great holiday. You might want to check out atlantaevent.com see what you think of that one. Nothing to do with me other than I found it the same time I found you.
Actually, Kay, that’s the key thing here: the web isn’t actually different from any other type of marketing when it’s being used for sales, or even information distribution. If that can ring true in your mind, then you will eventually make the proper decisions for your website. There is nothing spectacular or different about the web--that philosophy is what led to the inevitable dot com crash a few years back.
Treat it as you would any other advertising or informative medium. TV, print, flyers, direct marketing, telemarketing, whatever. Follow the same philosophies of keeping it simple, making an impact, and above all—make it EASY for your customers to do business with you. If they have to work or make effort to get to you or your information--they’ll go somewhere else.
That’s the essence of “user friendly.” It simply means “friendly to your users”, those that browse your website.
And I’m not trying to disparage you--but if the way Chris and I have communicated these terms to you seems like we’re using tech-speak or jargon--we’re really not. And I’m speaking about things that are directly being used on your site. If you don’t know what they are, or why your site behaves in a certain manner--demand to know from whoever you paid to put it together for you. They may not be eager, and rightly so, to educate you on how it all goes together behind the scenes, but they should be able to justify every bit of their design choices to you.
It’s just like going to a doctor. None of us (here) are physicians, so you have to ask questions. LOTS of them. Doctors don’t just hand out information, because it bores them, and most of their patients probably don’t care to hear it. But if you really want to get well, you have to first KNOW the right questions to ask, and then ask and ask and ask until you get an answer that satisfies you.
Granted, that should have been researched and those questions asked before you bought into any type of website package, regardless of the size or reputation of the company that did it for you.
I don’t guess you’d be willing to tell me who the guy from IBM is, do you? I’ve got a funny funny feeling that I might know him.
God made us plain and simple but we have made ourselves very complicated. Ecclesiates 7:29 GNB
Kay you are very wise. Good luck with your endeavors.
Les Dunaway is the IBM man at And until, Les, who I am no reflection of I might add we have really just met, there is no one to ask, that’s my point. “ . . . demand to know from whoever you paid to put it together for you.” I put it together and don’t pay anything but the hosting fee. This package is given out free to people with instructions that are pretty basic. They wait about four weeks and then call and offer their technical help to do it for you. I had to put them off because my son was traveling and forbade me to buy anything related to the site while he was gone. They didn’t get back to me for another four weeks by than I was done. They were quite amazed and said what I had done with their help would have cost me about 8 thousand. Don’t have a clue if that is true. I gave up asking them questions because their answers were very evasive as well as being bottom line rude. They really didn’t want to help you unless you were paying them. They were impatient because I did not know the techical terms to use in regards to my questions.
Well I am coping all that you wrote and I will share it with Les and see what he can explain to this very dense at times head. I am pretty sure you are referring to the macromedia page of Forward Edge that comes up before my site does as the pop up but I wouldn’t know how to get rid of it. And I have no control over much else, including type style, the storesonline site is the same way. Like I said they are both a “paint by number style” piece. I am going to see about putting the *****.com into a flat surface (html? and the X is completely new to me, absolutely no clue.).
Hey fellas,
Is it possilble to erase my comments? My boss doesn’t like that when people type into search *****.com they get suckysites.
He doubts that anyone is going to bother reading far enough along to realize the search connection is because of my comments and questions to you.
He feels that anything much of what you have to say won’t even be read beyond two lines except for those like you are technical enough to understand what you are talking about.
The boss is my son and he is just a wee bit upset with me. So take mercy on an old women and delete reference to ***** off your site.
May the grases of the one who loves us shower you and yours!
Kay
Why in the world would anyone run a search using your web address? If they wanted to get to your site, they’d just go to *****.com. The search results you should be worried about are things that are in the topic of your content, i.e. your products and such. You want people searching for those products to find your site.
I don’t think anyone but your son will ever type your address into a Google search.
In fact, doing a Google search using your domain name with extension doesn’t return any results. Doing one with the domain minus extension does return 3 results; this thread being the top one.
Anyway, I’ll go ahead and censor out the references to your domain so that it’s “anonymous”, so to speak.
Fellas,
You’re grand. Your mothers would be proud. Beautiful reflections you are of them.
And in answer to why—Besides being a strange and illiterate computer person, some times, as a shortcut to yahoo, I go to it by way of my yohoo IM which I keep open on my desk top all of the time. I type into the search box where I want to go and it gives me an inderect route. I know a lot of others who do that too because that’s where I learned how to do it from. In most cases it does work. But my son who is more inept than I added the .com taking him to you. Be kind in your thoughts.
In exchange for being such grand fellas I share here something that my tech contacts have found exciting.
I don’t know where you are all located but all of us who like to network like Atlantaevent.com. I personally think Jeff did a great job putting a WORKING SITE together and so do a lot of others. It’s exciting because it’s using the computer in a very positive way as a tool of comunication and it’s working!
Hope you enjoy!
Do you acknoledge great sites too?
Kay
.... arent most websites “working”? or did the internet crash again…
OK Bill!
Huh your name is Bill miss that, the email came from Chris—I was speaking of Bill as in is!
Were you sending me great sites!
What a pleasant surprise almost a year later!
Here is one I have found and you are probably too young to appreciate:
http://www.singingman.us/DYR.htm
Also I have since redone ispyimages.com (no more flash) and I understand now what a pop up is not that such says much. The new site is so, so I know! I am neither a writer or a web site builder.
I have a couple of others I have build—Not great one was [url=http://www.WWWBulletinBoard.net]http://www.WWWBulletinBoard.net[/url] Not great either and soon as I finished I found [url=http://www.craigslist.com]http://www.craigslist.com[/url] out of SF, Ca.
much better than mine. Excellent programming or so it seems to me.
I also have [url=http://www.kidcredits.org]http://www.kidcredits.org[/url]—Not great either BUT the purpose it serves is so very important. I am hoping that once I have a influential Board of Directors together things like the web site will get the needed talent.
Be kind and I am really and truly open to any and all suggetions: Just don’t be too techy and as far as the writing goes—I am no more a writer than a web site builder.
Have a great holiday season!
Yup, this one is pretty bad! But you didnt mention the use of two separate navbars containing the same links!
Seriously, what web design corporation made that lump of crap?
That couldnt have possibly costed more than 5 bucks…
Nope, it craps out with Firebird on PCs, too.
And I see you’re jumping right into the posting as well. This might be kind of fun!
By Chris Curtis on September 4, 2003 at 09:34pm link